ON THIS WEEK’S The42 Rugby Weekly, Bernard Jackman and Murray Kinsella joined Gavan Casey to discuss the future of sevens rugby in Ireland, the sport’s growing issues at the breakdown and how it’s officiated, and the four provinces’ Pro14 fixtures this weekend — all of which are crucial in their own way.
There was only one place to start, however, and that was with news that Rugby Australia and the New South Wales Rugby Union are set to sack Israel Folau, arguably the world’s best player, after his latest bout of homophobia on social media.
Murray and Bernard believe there might be more to the story than meets the eye, with the latter also suggesting that most of Folau’s team-mates would probably no longer wish to play alongside the 29-year-old in any case.
You can watch the lads’ discussion in the video above, or if you’ve forgotten your headphones on your commute, you can read what they had to say below.
The full podcast, included an extended version of the Folau chat, is available on iTunes and all major podcast providers, or alternatively in the following SoundCloud link:
Murray Kinsella: “For me, it’s a really strong and the right decision from Rugby Australia. I really did not expect this — certainly so swiftly.
“Rugby Players Australia have put out a statement saying that while they don’t endorse or condone Folau’s posts, they say it’s imperative that the proper process is followed under the code of conduct — obviously in regards to contracts.
“So I think this one is going to roll on a little bit. The intention is to sack him, and I think that would be a decision — if followed through — which would be strongly supported.
“I don’t think this is the end of it — I think we’re in for a bit of a saga here — but I’d congratulate Rugby Australia on making a strong move.”
Bernard Jackman: “I commend the Australian rugby union and the Waratahs for the strong leadership they’ve shown. So often we see governing bodies fudge around.
“The reality is I don’t think there’s any way back from this [for Folau]. What mitigating circumstances, realistically, can come up? He’s had past experience in stepping out of line on this. There’s been a clause put in his contract warning him about future issues.
“I just think it’s a really strong statement. Best player in the world or not, you’ve got to have better morals and better values, and adhere to the rules. And he’s blatantly gone against the grain, so I think he’ll be gone.
“It’ll take a while, probably, but I can’t see how he can play for Australia during the World Cup given what he’s done.”
MK: “And would some of his team-mates even want to play with him? David Pocock has kind of accepted him back into the group — someone who has really strong beliefs [to the contrary] and would absolutely hate this hate speech from Folau.”
BJ: “Well, Pocock is probably an exception in that he’s willing to speak openly about his views and his frustrations with Israel in the past, but the majority of players wouldn’t want to [play with Folau]. But they wouldn’t come out and say it.
Folau celebrates with team-mate David Pocock after scoring a try during the Rugby Championship match between Australia and Argentina on 15 September 2018. Source: AAP/PA Images
Gavan Casey: “Do you really think the players wouldn’t want to play with him — even if they strongly disagreed with his views?”
BJ: “Nah, it’s too much. I think it’s too much.
GC: “It will roll on, and it’ll be rolled out in the media about what you can say, or, ‘oh, we can’t say anything anymore‘, and ‘he’s entitled to his beliefs‘, and all of that kind of stuff that we hear constantly.
“You can say, yes, they’re his religious beliefs. Cool… They’re warped. Some religious beliefs are just not right. Not everything is correct — there’s still right and wrong. It’s this fascinating thing that people believe because of free speech, you can be impervious to any criticism. It doesn’t work that way.
“The statement from [Rugby] Australia says they’ve warned him “formally and repeatedly”. In any other walk of life — if I walked into this office and started spouting hate speech or anything like that, maybe there’d be a warning first, but if I did it again I’d be out the door. He’s an employee.”
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MK: “And regardless of your religious beliefs, his comments are actually dangerous. That level of homophobia from someone who is such a big presence and such a powerful role model within Australian sport across the board — he’s been in three professional sports — it’s just dangerous.
“And you kind of wonder what’s going to happen next with him. Is he trying to get out of the contract? Why has he clearly — so clearly — broken the rules that they set out for him?”
“If [Rugby Australia] and the Waratahs have issued him with warnings, and offered clarity around what he can and can’t do, he had to have known that this was going to test the validity of his contract. Potentially, he doesn’t care, he’s going to give up being a professional athlete. But potentially someone like him will be in demand in other places.”
Folau in full flight. Source: AAP/PA Images
GC: That’s the thing, it could work out in his favour financially.
GC: “Well, Australia have made the right decision — now it’s up to someone else to make the right decision as well. And they won’t.”
BJ: “Yeah, it mightn’t happen. There have been a lot of issues in NRL — in Australian rugby league — around discipline, around poor behaviour, and the talented athletes always get taken back. The averages joes get put in the scrap heap. But he’s someone who can win games for clubs, so it’s up to the coaches and the boards of those clubs to decide whether they want to carry that baggage with them for the sake of results.”
Murray and Bernard also delved into how big a blow the impending loss of Folau would be to Wallabies head coach Michael Cheika ahead of the Rugby World Cup later this year, and how the former Leinster boss finds himself in a tricky situation at the helm of his national side.
MK: “They’re losing one of the best fullbacks in the world, a guy whose aerial skills are unprecedented. His ability to get off the ground is just exceptional. He became the top try-scorer in Super Rugby just very recently and is an absolute weapon in attack.
“Just aerially — you can build a gameplan around that, really. The Waratahs have increasingly done that. So, if he’s not there, it’s a major blow to them [Australia] coming into a massive tournament. They had been assembling a nice squad there, making some moves with their coaching team as well, and Cheika would have felt things were kind of coming together. To get this news, for him, I guess is just a massive blow.”
Folau in Wallabies training last November. Source: David Davies
BJ: “I think Australia are in a pretty tricky period now because I know Michael’s looking for a new attack coach, but I think of all the top tier countries — bar something potentially happening with France and [Fabien] Galthié — everyone else seems to have their coaches locked in for the World Cup.
“Being head coach of Australia is a difficult job at the moment just with the way they’re finding it so hard to compete with the other codes, but I feel for Cheika a lot in terms of this disruption that he has with very little time to fix it.”
Gavan Casey and Murray Kinsella are joined by Bernard Jackman to discuss Izzy Folau’s impending sacking by Australia and all the week’s news on the latest episode of The42 Rugby Weekly:
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Rugby Australia to sack Israel Folau for ‘disrespectful’ social media posts